diff --git a/packages/backend-core/src/security/roles.ts b/packages/backend-core/src/security/roles.ts
index 3f26368efe..c14178cacb 100644
--- a/packages/backend-core/src/security/roles.ts
+++ b/packages/backend-core/src/security/roles.ts
@@ -17,6 +17,7 @@ import {
 } from "@budibase/types"
 import cloneDeep from "lodash/fp/cloneDeep"
 import { RoleColor, helpers } from "@budibase/shared-core"
+import { uniqBy } from "lodash"
 
 export const BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS = {
   ADMIN: "ADMIN",
@@ -37,6 +38,14 @@ export const RoleIDVersion = {
   NAME: "name",
 }
 
+function rolesInList(roleIds: string[], ids: string | string[]) {
+  if (Array.isArray(ids)) {
+    return ids.filter(id => roleIds.includes(id)).length === ids.length
+  } else {
+    return roleIds.includes(ids)
+  }
+}
+
 export class Role implements RoleDoc {
   _id: string
   _rev?: string
@@ -66,15 +75,65 @@ export class Role implements RoleDoc {
     if (inherits && typeof inherits === "string") {
       inherits = prefixRoleIDNoBuiltin(inherits)
     } else if (inherits && Array.isArray(inherits)) {
-      inherits = inherits.map(inherit => prefixRoleIDNoBuiltin(inherit))
-    }
-    if (inherits) {
-      this.inherits = inherits
+      inherits = inherits.map(prefixRoleIDNoBuiltin)
     }
+    this.inherits = inherits
     return this
   }
 }
 
+export class RoleHierarchyTraversal {
+  allRoles: RoleDoc[]
+  opts?: { defaultPublic?: boolean }
+
+  constructor(allRoles: RoleDoc[], opts?: { defaultPublic?: boolean }) {
+    this.allRoles = allRoles
+    this.opts = opts
+  }
+
+  walk(role: RoleDoc): RoleDoc[] {
+    const opts = this.opts,
+      allRoles = this.allRoles
+    // this will be a full walked list of roles - which may contain duplicates
+    let roleList: RoleDoc[] = []
+    if (!role || !role._id) {
+      return roleList
+    }
+    roleList.push(role)
+    if (Array.isArray(role.inherits)) {
+      for (let roleId of role.inherits) {
+        const foundRole = findRole(roleId, allRoles, opts)
+        if (foundRole) {
+          roleList = roleList.concat(this.walk(foundRole))
+        }
+      }
+    } else {
+      const foundRoleIds: string[] = []
+      let currentRole: RoleDoc | undefined = role
+      while (
+        currentRole &&
+        currentRole.inherits &&
+        !rolesInList(foundRoleIds, currentRole.inherits)
+      ) {
+        if (Array.isArray(currentRole.inherits)) {
+          return roleList.concat(this.walk(currentRole))
+        } else {
+          foundRoleIds.push(currentRole.inherits)
+          currentRole = findRole(currentRole.inherits, allRoles, opts)
+          if (currentRole) {
+            roleList.push(currentRole)
+          }
+        }
+        // loop now found - stop iterating
+        if (helpers.roles.checkForRoleInheritanceLoops(roleList)) {
+          break
+        }
+      }
+    }
+    return uniqBy(roleList, role => role._id)
+  }
+}
+
 const BUILTIN_ROLES = {
   ADMIN: new Role(
     BUILTIN_IDS.ADMIN,
@@ -202,7 +261,7 @@ export async function roleToNumber(id: string) {
             return findNumber(foundRole) + 1
           }
         })
-        .filter(number => !!number)
+        .filter(number => number)
         .sort()
         .pop()
       if (highestBuiltin != undefined) {
@@ -213,12 +272,7 @@ export async function roleToNumber(id: string) {
     }
     return 0
   }
-  let highest = 0
-  for (let role of hierarchy) {
-    const roleNumber = findNumber(role)
-    highest = Math.max(roleNumber, highest)
-  }
-  return highest
+  return Math.max(...hierarchy.map(findNumber))
 }
 
 /**
@@ -236,11 +290,23 @@ export function lowerBuiltinRoleID(roleId1?: string, roleId2?: string): string {
     : roleId1
 }
 
-function compareRoleIds(roleId1: string, roleId2: string) {
+export function compareRoleIds(roleId1: string, roleId2: string) {
   // make sure both role IDs are prefixed correctly
   return prefixRoleID(roleId1) === prefixRoleID(roleId2)
 }
 
+export function externalRole(role: RoleDoc): RoleDoc {
+  let _id: string | undefined
+  if (role._id) {
+    _id = getExternalRoleID(role._id)
+  }
+  return {
+    ...role,
+    _id,
+    inherits: getExternalRoleIDs(role.inherits, role.version),
+  }
+}
+
 /**
  * Given a list of roles, this will pick the role out, accounting for built ins.
  */
@@ -293,6 +359,18 @@ export async function getRole(
   return findRole(roleId, roleList, opts)
 }
 
+export async function saveRoles(roles: RoleDoc[]) {
+  const db = getAppDB()
+  await db.bulkDocs(
+    roles
+      .filter(role => role._id)
+      .map(role => ({
+        ...role,
+        _id: prefixRoleID(role._id!),
+      }))
+  )
+}
+
 /**
  * Simple function to get all the roles based on the top level user role ID.
  */
@@ -301,66 +379,19 @@ async function getAllUserRoles(
   opts?: { defaultPublic?: boolean }
 ): Promise<RoleDoc[]> {
   const allRoles = await getAllRoles()
-  if (helpers.roles.checkForRoleInheritanceLoops(allRoles)) {
-    throw new Error("Loop detected in roles - cannot list roles")
-  }
   // admins have access to all roles
   if (userRoleId === BUILTIN_IDS.ADMIN) {
     return allRoles
   }
-  const rolesFound = (ids: string | string[]) => {
-    if (Array.isArray(ids)) {
-      return ids.filter(id => roleIds.includes(id)).length === ids.length
-    } else {
-      return roleIds.includes(ids)
-    }
-  }
-
-  const roleIds = [userRoleId]
-  const roles: RoleDoc[] = []
-  const iterateInherited = (role: RoleDoc | undefined) => {
-    if (!role || !role._id) {
-      return
-    }
-    roleIds.push(role._id)
-    roles.push(role)
-    if (Array.isArray(role.inherits)) {
-      role.inherits.forEach(roleId => {
-        const foundRole = findRole(roleId, allRoles, opts)
-        if (foundRole) {
-          iterateInherited(foundRole)
-        }
-      })
-    } else {
-      while (role && role.inherits && !rolesFound(role.inherits)) {
-        if (Array.isArray(role.inherits)) {
-          iterateInherited(role)
-          break
-        } else {
-          roleIds.push(role.inherits)
-          role = findRole(role.inherits, allRoles, opts)
-          if (role) {
-            roles.push(role)
-          }
-        }
-      }
-    }
-  }
 
   // get all the inherited roles
   const foundRole = findRole(userRoleId, allRoles, opts)
+  let roles: RoleDoc[] = []
   if (foundRole) {
-    iterateInherited(foundRole)
+    const traversal = new RoleHierarchyTraversal(allRoles, opts)
+    roles = traversal.walk(foundRole)
   }
-  const foundRoleIds: string[] = []
-  return roles.filter(role => {
-    if (role._id && !foundRoleIds.includes(role._id)) {
-      foundRoleIds.push(role._id)
-      return true
-    } else {
-      return false
-    }
-  })
+  return roles
 }
 
 export async function getUserRoleIdHierarchy(
diff --git a/packages/builder/src/pages/builder/portal/apps/index.svelte b/packages/builder/src/pages/builder/portal/apps/index.svelte
index ddd37dc4a3..c3fcfd65ff 100644
--- a/packages/builder/src/pages/builder/portal/apps/index.svelte
+++ b/packages/builder/src/pages/builder/portal/apps/index.svelte
@@ -76,9 +76,7 @@
     const params = new URLSearchParams({
       open: "error",
     })
-    $goto(
-      `/builder/app/${appId}/settings/automation-history?${params.toString()}`
-    )
+    $goto(`/builder/app/${appId}/settings/automations?${params.toString()}`)
   }
 
   const errorCount = errors => {
diff --git a/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/NumberCell.svelte b/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/NumberCell.svelte
index 2acec7d11e..c8ae96ef21 100644
--- a/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/NumberCell.svelte
+++ b/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/NumberCell.svelte
@@ -1,3 +1,7 @@
+<script context="module">
+  const NumberFormatter = Intl.NumberFormat()
+</script>
+
 <script>
   import TextCell from "./TextCell.svelte"
 
@@ -9,6 +13,24 @@
     const newValue = isNaN(float) ? null : float
     onChange(newValue)
   }
+
+  const formatNumber = value => {
+    const type = typeof value
+    if (type !== "string" && type !== "number") {
+      return ""
+    }
+    if (type === "string" && !value.trim().length) {
+      return ""
+    }
+    const res = NumberFormatter.format(value)
+    return res === "NaN" ? value : res
+  }
 </script>
 
-<TextCell {...$$props} onChange={numberOnChange} bind:api type="number" />
+<TextCell
+  {...$$props}
+  onChange={numberOnChange}
+  bind:api
+  type="number"
+  format={formatNumber}
+/>
diff --git a/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/TextCell.svelte b/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/TextCell.svelte
index 0cf0ab2004..9275bca3c6 100644
--- a/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/TextCell.svelte
+++ b/packages/frontend-core/src/components/grid/cells/TextCell.svelte
@@ -7,11 +7,13 @@
   export let type = "text"
   export let readonly = false
   export let api
+  export let format = null
 
   let input
   let active = false
 
   $: editable = focused && !readonly
+  $: displayValue = format?.(value) ?? value ?? ""
 
   const handleChange = e => {
     onChange(e.target.value)
@@ -52,7 +54,7 @@
 {:else}
   <div class="text-cell" class:number={type === "number"}>
     <div class="value">
-      {value ?? ""}
+      {displayValue}
     </div>
   </div>
 {/if}
diff --git a/packages/server/src/api/controllers/role.ts b/packages/server/src/api/controllers/role.ts
index 34455d2c52..d09fcf28f6 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/api/controllers/role.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/api/controllers/role.ts
@@ -28,15 +28,27 @@ const UpdateRolesOptions = {
   REMOVED: "removed",
 }
 
-function externalRole(role: Role): Role {
-  let _id: string | undefined
-  if (role._id) {
-    _id = roles.getExternalRoleID(role._id)
+async function removeRoleFromOthers(roleId: string) {
+  const allOtherRoles = await roles.getAllRoles()
+  const updated: Role[] = []
+  for (let role of allOtherRoles) {
+    let changed = false
+    if (Array.isArray(role.inherits)) {
+      const newInherits = role.inherits.filter(
+        id => !roles.compareRoleIds(id, roleId)
+      )
+      changed = role.inherits.length !== newInherits.length
+      role.inherits = newInherits
+    } else if (role.inherits && roles.compareRoleIds(role.inherits, roleId)) {
+      role.inherits = roles.BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.PUBLIC
+      changed = true
+    }
+    if (changed) {
+      updated.push(role)
+    }
   }
-  return {
-    ...role,
-    _id,
-    inherits: roles.getExternalRoleIDs(role.inherits, role.version),
+  if (updated.length) {
+    await roles.saveRoles(updated)
   }
 }
 
@@ -66,23 +78,25 @@ async function updateRolesOnUserTable(
 }
 
 export async function fetch(ctx: UserCtx<void, FetchRolesResponse>) {
-  ctx.body = (await roles.getAllRoles()).map(role => externalRole(role))
+  ctx.body = (await roles.getAllRoles()).map(role => roles.externalRole(role))
 }
 
 export async function find(ctx: UserCtx<void, FindRoleResponse>) {
   const role = await roles.getRole(ctx.params.roleId)
   if (!role) {
     ctx.throw(404, { message: "Role not found" })
-  } else {
-    ctx.body = externalRole(role)
   }
+  ctx.body = roles.externalRole(role)
 }
 
 export async function save(ctx: UserCtx<SaveRoleRequest, SaveRoleResponse>) {
   const db = context.getAppDB()
-  let { _id, name, inherits, permissionId, version, uiMetadata } =
+  let { _id, _rev, name, inherits, permissionId, version, uiMetadata } =
     ctx.request.body
   let isCreate = false
+  if (!_rev && !version) {
+    version = roles.RoleIDVersion.NAME
+  }
   const isNewVersion = version === roles.RoleIDVersion.NAME
 
   if (_id && roles.isBuiltin(_id)) {
@@ -131,7 +145,7 @@ export async function save(ctx: UserCtx<SaveRoleRequest, SaveRoleResponse>) {
     ctx.throw(400, "Role inheritance contains a loop, this is not supported")
   }
 
-  const foundRev = ctx.request.body._rev || dbRole?._rev
+  const foundRev = _rev || dbRole?._rev
   if (foundRev) {
     role._rev = foundRev
   }
@@ -148,7 +162,7 @@ export async function save(ctx: UserCtx<SaveRoleRequest, SaveRoleResponse>) {
     role.version
   )
   role._rev = result.rev
-  ctx.body = externalRole(role)
+  ctx.body = roles.externalRole(role)
 
   const devDb = context.getDevAppDB()
   const prodDb = context.getProdAppDB()
@@ -198,6 +212,10 @@ export async function destroy(ctx: UserCtx<void, DestroyRoleResponse>) {
     UpdateRolesOptions.REMOVED,
     role.version
   )
+
+  // clean up inherits
+  await removeRoleFromOthers(roleId)
+
   ctx.message = `Role ${ctx.params.roleId} deleted successfully`
   ctx.status = 200
   builderSocket?.emitRoleDeletion(ctx, role)
diff --git a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/permissions.spec.ts b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/permissions.spec.ts
index 46ce656459..7a9bb2f373 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/permissions.spec.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/permissions.spec.ts
@@ -291,6 +291,8 @@ describe("/permission", () => {
   describe("multi-inheritance permissions", () => {
     let table1: Table, table2: Table, role1: Role, role2: Role
     beforeEach(async () => {
+      // create new app
+      await config.init()
       table1 = await config.createTable()
       table2 = await config.createTable()
       await config.api.row.save(table1._id!, {
@@ -301,7 +303,7 @@ describe("/permission", () => {
       })
       role1 = await config.api.roles.save(
         {
-          name: "role1",
+          name: "test_1",
           permissionId: PermissionLevel.WRITE,
           inherits: BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC,
         },
@@ -309,7 +311,7 @@ describe("/permission", () => {
       )
       role2 = await config.api.roles.save(
         {
-          name: "role2",
+          name: "test_2",
           permissionId: PermissionLevel.WRITE,
           inherits: BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC,
         },
@@ -328,7 +330,7 @@ describe("/permission", () => {
     })
 
     it("should be unable to search for table 2 using role 1", async () => {
-      await config.setRole(role1._id!, async () => {
+      await config.loginAsRole(role1._id!, async () => {
         const response2 = await config.api.row.search(
           table2._id!,
           {
@@ -347,7 +349,7 @@ describe("/permission", () => {
         inherits: [role1._id!, role2._id!],
       })
 
-      await config.setRole(role3._id!, async () => {
+      await config.loginAsRole(role3._id!, async () => {
         const response1 = await config.api.row.search(
           table1._id!,
           {
diff --git a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/role.spec.ts b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/role.spec.ts
index 6ed5dfd30f..5668295342 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/role.spec.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/role.spec.ts
@@ -121,6 +121,34 @@ describe("/roles", () => {
         { status: 400, body: { message: LOOP_ERROR } }
       )
     })
+
+    it("frontend example - should deny", async () => {
+      const id1 = "cb27c4ec9415042f4800411adb346fb7c",
+        id2 = "cbc72a9d61ab64d49b31d90d1df4c1fdb"
+      const role1 = await config.api.roles.save({
+        _id: id1,
+        name: id1,
+        permissions: {},
+        permissionId: "write",
+        version: "name",
+        inherits: ["POWER"],
+      })
+      await config.api.roles.save({
+        _id: id2,
+        permissions: {},
+        name: id2,
+        permissionId: "write",
+        version: "name",
+        inherits: [id1],
+      })
+      await config.api.roles.save(
+        {
+          ...role1,
+          inherits: [BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.POWER, id2],
+        },
+        { status: 400, body: { message: LOOP_ERROR } }
+      )
+    })
   })
 
   describe("fetch", () => {
@@ -189,6 +217,27 @@ describe("/roles", () => {
         _id: dbCore.prefixRoleID(customRole._id!),
       })
     })
+
+    it("should disconnection roles when deleted", async () => {
+      const role1 = await config.api.roles.save({
+        name: "role1",
+        permissionId: BuiltinPermissionID.WRITE,
+        inherits: [BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC],
+      })
+      const role2 = await config.api.roles.save({
+        name: "role2",
+        permissionId: BuiltinPermissionID.WRITE,
+        inherits: [BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC, role1._id!],
+      })
+      const role3 = await config.api.roles.save({
+        name: "role3",
+        permissionId: BuiltinPermissionID.WRITE,
+        inherits: [BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC, role2._id!],
+      })
+      await config.api.roles.destroy(role2, { status: 200 })
+      const found = await config.api.roles.find(role3._id!, { status: 200 })
+      expect(found.inherits).toEqual([BUILTIN_ROLE_IDS.BASIC])
+    })
   })
 
   describe("accessible", () => {
@@ -200,29 +249,35 @@ describe("/roles", () => {
     })
 
     it("should be able to fetch accessible roles (with builder)", async () => {
-      const res = await config.api.roles.accessible(config.defaultHeaders(), {
-        status: 200,
+      await config.withHeaders(config.defaultHeaders(), async () => {
+        const res = await config.api.roles.accessible({
+          status: 200,
+        })
+        expect(res.length).toBe(5)
+        expect(typeof res[0]).toBe("string")
       })
-      expect(res.length).toBe(5)
-      expect(typeof res[0]).toBe("string")
     })
 
     it("should be able to fetch accessible roles (basic user)", async () => {
       const headers = await config.basicRoleHeaders()
-      const res = await config.api.roles.accessible(headers, {
-        status: 200,
+      await config.withHeaders(headers, async () => {
+        const res = await config.api.roles.accessible({
+          status: 200,
+        })
+        expect(res.length).toBe(2)
+        expect(res[0]).toBe("BASIC")
+        expect(res[1]).toBe("PUBLIC")
       })
-      expect(res.length).toBe(2)
-      expect(res[0]).toBe("BASIC")
-      expect(res[1]).toBe("PUBLIC")
     })
 
     it("should be able to fetch accessible roles (no user)", async () => {
-      const res = await config.api.roles.accessible(config.publicHeaders(), {
-        status: 200,
+      await config.withHeaders(config.publicHeaders(), async () => {
+        const res = await config.api.roles.accessible({
+          status: 200,
+        })
+        expect(res.length).toBe(1)
+        expect(res[0]).toBe("PUBLIC")
       })
-      expect(res.length).toBe(1)
-      expect(res[0]).toBe("PUBLIC")
     })
 
     it("should not fetch higher level accessible roles when a custom role header is provided", async () => {
@@ -233,13 +288,15 @@ describe("/roles", () => {
         permissionId: permissions.BuiltinPermissionID.READ_ONLY,
         version: "name",
       })
-      const res = await config.api.roles.accessible(
+      await config.withHeaders(
         { "x-budibase-role": customRoleName },
-        {
-          status: 200,
+        async () => {
+          const res = await config.api.roles.accessible({
+            status: 200,
+          })
+          expect(res).toEqual([customRoleName, "BASIC", "PUBLIC"])
         }
       )
-      expect(res).toEqual([customRoleName, "BASIC", "PUBLIC"])
     })
   })
 
@@ -269,10 +326,12 @@ describe("/roles", () => {
       const headers = await config.roleHeaders({
         roleId: role3,
       })
-      const res = await config.api.roles.accessible(headers, {
-        status: 200,
+      await config.withHeaders(headers, async () => {
+        const res = await config.api.roles.accessible({
+          status: 200,
+        })
+        expect(res).toEqual([role3, role1, "BASIC", "PUBLIC", role2, "POWER"])
       })
-      expect(res).toEqual([role3, role1, "BASIC", "PUBLIC", role2, "POWER"])
     })
   })
 })
diff --git a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/screen.spec.ts b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/screen.spec.ts
index f660589951..5dfe3d2a44 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/screen.spec.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/api/routes/tests/screen.spec.ts
@@ -79,7 +79,7 @@ describe("/screens", () => {
     })
 
     async function checkScreens(roleId: string, screenIds: string[]) {
-      await config.setRole(roleId, async () => {
+      await config.loginAsRole(roleId, async () => {
         const res = await config.api.application.getDefinition(
           config.prodAppId!,
           {
@@ -110,6 +110,10 @@ describe("/screens", () => {
   })
 
   describe("save", () => {
+    beforeEach(() => {
+      jest.clearAllMocks()
+    })
+
     it("should be able to create a screen", async () => {
       const screen = basicScreen()
       const responseScreen = await config.api.screen.save(screen, {
@@ -127,6 +131,7 @@ describe("/screens", () => {
       screen._id = responseScreen._id
       screen._rev = responseScreen._rev
       screen.name = "edit"
+      jest.clearAllMocks()
 
       responseScreen = await config.api.screen.save(screen, { status: 200 })
 
diff --git a/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/TestConfiguration.ts b/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/TestConfiguration.ts
index a3f2fb7adc..713f8b31de 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/TestConfiguration.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/TestConfiguration.ts
@@ -110,6 +110,7 @@ export default class TestConfiguration {
   tenantId?: string
   api: API
   csrfToken?: string
+  temporaryHeaders?: Record<string, string | string[]>
 
   constructor(openServer = true) {
     if (openServer) {
@@ -429,10 +430,10 @@ export default class TestConfiguration {
   // HEADERS
 
   // sets the role for the headers, for the period of a callback
-  async setRole(roleId: string, cb: () => Promise<unknown>) {
+  async loginAsRole(roleId: string, cb: () => Promise<unknown>) {
     const roleUser = await this.createUser({
       roles: {
-        [this.prodAppId!]: roleId,
+        [this.getProdAppId()]: roleId,
       },
       builder: { global: false },
       admin: { global: false },
@@ -443,16 +444,20 @@ export default class TestConfiguration {
       builder: false,
       prodApp: true,
     })
-    const temp = this.user
-    this.user = roleUser
-    await cb()
-    if (temp) {
-      this.user = temp
-      await this.login({
-        userId: temp._id!,
-        builder: true,
-        prodApp: false,
-      })
+    await this.withUser(roleUser, async () => {
+      await cb()
+    })
+  }
+
+  async withHeaders(
+    headers: Record<string, string | string[]>,
+    cb: () => Promise<unknown>
+  ) {
+    this.temporaryHeaders = headers
+    try {
+      await cb()
+    } finally {
+      this.temporaryHeaders = undefined
     }
   }
 
@@ -479,7 +484,10 @@ export default class TestConfiguration {
     } else if (this.appId) {
       headers[constants.Header.APP_ID] = this.appId
     }
-    return headers
+    return {
+      ...headers,
+      ...this.temporaryHeaders,
+    }
   }
 
   publicHeaders({ prodApp = true } = {}) {
@@ -495,7 +503,10 @@ export default class TestConfiguration {
 
     headers[constants.Header.TENANT_ID] = this.getTenantId()
 
-    return headers
+    return {
+      ...headers,
+      ...this.temporaryHeaders,
+    }
   }
 
   async basicRoleHeaders() {
diff --git a/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/api/role.ts b/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/api/role.ts
index 05165cd38e..5bd0647384 100644
--- a/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/api/role.ts
+++ b/packages/server/src/tests/utilities/api/role.ts
@@ -22,10 +22,6 @@ export class RoleAPI extends TestAPI {
   }
 
   save = async (body: SaveRoleRequest, expectations?: Expectations) => {
-    // the tests should always be creating the "new" version of roles
-    if (body.version === undefined) {
-      body.version = "name"
-    }
     return await this._post<SaveRoleResponse>(`/api/roles`, {
       body,
       expectations,
@@ -38,12 +34,8 @@ export class RoleAPI extends TestAPI {
     })
   }
 
-  accessible = async (
-    headers: Record<string, string | string[]>,
-    expectations?: Expectations
-  ) => {
+  accessible = async (expectations?: Expectations) => {
     return await this._get<AccessibleRolesResponse>(`/api/roles/accessible`, {
-      headers,
       expectations,
     })
   }
diff --git a/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/roles.ts b/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/roles.ts
index 27f28cff82..8dee928edd 100644
--- a/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/roles.ts
+++ b/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/roles.ts
@@ -1,4 +1,11 @@
-import { Role } from "@budibase/types"
+import { Role, DocumentType, SEPARATOR } from "@budibase/types"
+
+// need to have a way to prefix, so we can check if the ID has its prefix or not
+// all new IDs should be the same in the future, but old roles they are never prefixed
+// while the role IDs always are - best to check both, also we can't access backend-core here
+function prefixForCheck(id: string) {
+  return `${DocumentType.ROLE}${SEPARATOR}${id}`
+}
 
 // Function to detect loops in roles
 export function checkForRoleInheritanceLoops(roles: Role[]): boolean {
@@ -11,16 +18,17 @@ export function checkForRoleInheritanceLoops(roles: Role[]): boolean {
   const checking = new Set<string>()
 
   function hasLoop(roleId: string): boolean {
-    if (checking.has(roleId)) {
+    const prefixed = prefixForCheck(roleId)
+    if (checking.has(roleId) || checking.has(prefixed)) {
       return true
     }
-    if (checked.has(roleId)) {
+    if (checked.has(roleId) || checked.has(prefixed)) {
       return false
     }
 
     checking.add(roleId)
 
-    const role = roleMap.get(roleId)
+    const role = roleMap.get(prefixed) || roleMap.get(roleId)
     if (!role) {
       // role not found - ignore
       checking.delete(roleId)
diff --git a/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/tests/roles.spec.ts b/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/tests/roles.spec.ts
index 7e52ded3f6..051a196a5b 100644
--- a/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/tests/roles.spec.ts
+++ b/packages/shared-core/src/helpers/tests/roles.spec.ts
@@ -57,5 +57,17 @@ describe("role utilities", () => {
       ]
       check(true)
     })
+
+    it("should handle new and old inherits structure", () => {
+      const role1 = role("role_role_1", "role_1")
+      role("role_role_2", ["role_1"])
+      role1.inherits = "role_2"
+      check(true)
+    })
+
+    it("self reference contains loop", () => {
+      role("role1", "role1")
+      check(true)
+    })
   })
 })
diff --git a/packages/types/src/api/web/role.ts b/packages/types/src/api/web/role.ts
index 4e56f6cd14..df439e84e7 100644
--- a/packages/types/src/api/web/role.ts
+++ b/packages/types/src/api/web/role.ts
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
 import { Role, RoleUIMetadata } from "../../documents"
+import { PermissionLevel } from "../../sdk"
 
 export interface SaveRoleRequest {
   _id?: string
@@ -6,6 +7,7 @@ export interface SaveRoleRequest {
   name: string
   inherits?: string | string[]
   permissionId: string
+  permissions?: Record<string, PermissionLevel[]>
   version?: string
   uiMetadata?: RoleUIMetadata
 }